Victorino Karma/T Baiting every round (and intentionally debuffing T buddies))

[The Suess]

Steam Name of Offending Player(s): VictorinoD

Steam ID of Offending Player(s): STEAM_0:0:43222486

Map the event happened on: Every map

Date of event: Pretty much every day for the past few weeks

What Happened?: Victorino gives negative sag to everyone including his T buddies intentionally. When asked to stop he responds with things along the lines of "I'm just making people complain about it to get it changed" or "I'm just playing the game the way it was supposed to be played"

Witnesses: Friend, seus, Not John Smith, heisen, Mr. Glitch. (I'm sure the list is bigger I just have talked with these people recently about it)

Evidence: (link incase images break: http://prntscr.com/131wxi8)
http://prntscr.com/131wxi8.png
http://prntscr.com/131y4x7

A report I made on him @ around midnight on the 15th (this is just for managers) is the reference for the "T buddies intentionally" accusation above


Evidence is hard to get atm due to neg sag sharing not displaying as intended (yellow bubbles are only client side for the person sharing). Hopefully there is a fix to this soon so more evidence is available.

[Nyte]

While I personally find the situation a bit blown out of proportion I do also see the problem. I believe the problem is moreso rooted in the implementation of neg sag rather than Victorino actively using it. But I think you also already know that given the repeated posts in suggestions. I think the best course of action regarding the situation would be to simply disable negative sag as a feature until Brass has the time/interest to actually make it work properly. Given how there is literally only one player using it and that player being Victorino I can see and understand how it's easy to point the blame at him but I also believe he hasn't done anything inherently banworthy. Put simply the problem is the implementation of -sag. But until then I suppose Victorino can be told to simply not use it I suppose? I dunno I'd like to get some more viewpoints on it. Also Jerome as a witness LMAO.

[Mr. Diklano]

i think nyte is pretty on the money, this is most likely a problem with neg sag rather than the player himself. At the end of the day, currently using negative sag on a detective round for example is the way it is meant to be used, it's used to make people shooting at you have worse accuracy. Now i do think him saying he does it purposely to make people complain is a little lame on his part but for sure this is a problem with negative sag. Best solution is either disable it for now, or make it only activate if a player actually hits you with damage. Also jerome witness les go

[Beebee1303]

Odd that everyone on your witness list is your brothers and then there is Jerome who was banned for a week.

[The Suess]

(05-17-2021, 11:47 PM)Nytemart Wrote:  While I personally find the situation a bit blown out of proportion I do also see the problem. I believe the problem is moreso rooted in the implementation of neg sag rather than Victorino actively using it. But I think you also already know that given the repeated posts in suggestions. I think the best course of action regarding the situation would be to simply disable negative sag as a feature until Brass has the time/interest to actually make it work properly. Given how there is literally only one player using it and that player being Victorino I can see and understand how it's easy to point the blame at him but I also believe he hasn't done anything inherently banworthy. Put simply the problem is the implementation of -sag. But until then I suppose Victorino can be told to simply not use it I suppose? I dunno I'd like to get some more viewpoints on it. Also Jerome as a witness LMAO.

Does implementation change that he intentionally debuffs his T buddies and Detective buddies? Do I just need to report round after round after round to get him to stop (cause that hasn't worked so far)? I can't exactly kill for T baiting when he's doing it on mine AND his T rounds or det rounds... unless I misread something that allows me to kill T budies/det buddies for intentional debuffs. Either way it needs to be fixed and there needs to be some way for staff to see its happening to punish properly as he literally does it every round I've run past him.

Adding yellow dots doesn't change this from being karma baiting persisting not only for a few rounds but for weeks of playtime.

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(05-18-2021, 12:56 AM)Beebee1303 Wrote:  Odd that everyone on your witness list is your brothers and then there is Jerome who was banned for a week.

They are who I talk to frequently on this server or have expressed annoyance with this individual. I'll poll the discord for people who have noticed this next time if that makes witnesses somehow more valid.

[PandaCow]

i had to check if i was in shit posting. there is actually a player report for using negative sag lmao

[Vhoxel]

funnily enough, you guys shot victorino once for giving you -sag when i was the one giving it

[Manzy]

(05-18-2021, 01:20 AM)Seally Energy Wrote:  funnily enough, you guys shot victorino once for giving you -sag when i was the one giving it

I broke the dam.

[Nyte]

(05-18-2021, 12:58 AM)The Suess Wrote:  

(05-17-2021, 11:47 PM)Nytemart Wrote:  While I personally find the situation a bit blown out of proportion I do also see the problem. I believe the problem is moreso rooted in the implementation of neg sag rather than Victorino actively using it. But I think you also already know that given the repeated posts in suggestions. I think the best course of action regarding the situation would be to simply disable negative sag as a feature until Brass has the time/interest to actually make it work properly. Given how there is literally only one player using it and that player being Victorino I can see and understand how it's easy to point the blame at him but I also believe he hasn't done anything inherently banworthy. Put simply the problem is the implementation of -sag. But until then I suppose Victorino can be told to simply not use it I suppose? I dunno I'd like to get some more viewpoints on it. Also Jerome as a witness LMAO.

Does implementation change that he intentionally debuffs his T buddies and Detective buddies? Do I just need to report round after round after round to get him to stop (cause that hasn't worked so far)? I can't exactly kill for T baiting when he's doing it on mine AND his T rounds or det rounds... unless I misread something that allows me to kill T budies/det buddies for intentional debuffs. Either way it needs to be fixed and there needs to be some way for staff to see its happening to punish properly as he literally does it every round I've run past him.

Adding yellow dots doesn't change this from being karma baiting persisting not only for a few rounds but for weeks of playtime.

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(05-18-2021, 12:56 AM)Beebee1303 Wrote:  Odd that everyone on your witness list is your brothers and then there is Jerome who was banned for a week.

They are who I talk to frequently on this server or have expressed annoyance with this individual. I'll poll the discord for people who have noticed this next time if that makes witnesses somehow more valid.

"Does implementation change that he intentionally debuffs his T buddies and Detective buddies?"
Yes! As it stands now it is simply an invisible giant aura that debuffs both friend and foe with no discernable indication as to who's done it or whom it should target. There is some real ambiguity regarding whether the minor debuff it gives is enough to a kill a person for since it does neither damage nor does it have any direct synergies with other items that would indicate that it's being used to set up a kill (an example of something that does no damage but has some clear dangerous potential is shooting your own clone with Zeus' Might and proccing the zap onto nearby players. The zap itself does no damage to them but you can reload at any time to make them explode). I don't believe Victorino himself has much care nor control for whom gets hit by the neg sag given it's massive range hence why him "intentionally" debuffing T and D buddies it hard to prove and even harder to punish for.

"Do I just need to report round after round after round to get him to stop (cause that hasn't worked so far)?"
As I stated earlier on I don't believe the core problem is Victorino using it but rather the problematic implementation of negative sag itself.
It is not useful enough to be something you'd actively want to use as a traitor if it meant being killed on sight by having it applied. But is is also not harmful enough as an inno to warrant being killed over.
Other borderline items are things such as pogseal grenades, who also do 0 damage but apply obnoxious effects. As for getting him to stop it's mostly a matter of staff-discussion whether it's big enough of an issue to warrant telling him to stop or if it's blown out of proportion. Currently it's leaning more towards telling him to stop (at least until it gets a better implementation).

[HeisenBurger]

(05-18-2021, 01:20 AM)Seally Energy Wrote:  funnily enough, you guys shot victorino once for giving you -sag when i was the one giving it

I really think it needs to be changed, victorino isn't totally innocent though, but I don't care if he gets punished or not, I just want negative sag to get changed. It's a crippling effect, with absolutely no warning that it's happening. Imagine a new player trying to shoot people and his gun just doesn't hit anything and has a shit ton of recoil. How would that be enjoyable? Nytemart, it definitely is harmful enough to warrant killing people over. -30% accuracy can absolutely destroy a gun. Imagine using a bizon with that shit.