04-09-2017, 11:33 AM
I understand your concerns.
While that rule is true for a lot of things(especially 'skill based' PvP content), RNG can actually be okay to use in some PvE scenarios(I've enjoyed it quite a bit in some games). So in this type of scenario, Some random damage ranges should be perfectly fine with the way I plan to do it. I don't expect everyone to like it though - But, Look at Runescape, a MMORPG that's still alive to this day (came out in 2002). Has tens of thousands of active players. Its damage system is SUPER RNG, based on your characters stats vs your targets stats. Of course it can be pretty frustrating for PvP, but it still feels pretty good and works pretty great. Especially for progression and the amount of different character builds that became possible from it. The damage ranges here will not be NEAR as RNG based or varied as that.
Tons of games use randomized damage in one form or another(ever heard of critical hits? Stats are often there to increase your crit chances too).
Also I should clarify, it's pseudo random, not pure RNG. (google it if you're unsure what it is) The damage range also will not be anything extreme. The MAIN concept is lowering the initial damage value, and having the player increase that via leveling up (or 'training').
Think about it this way: Without a similar kind of player progression that has players start 'weak' and progress to be stronger, players can literally jump in with the best weapons they have at the moment, and just shred everything right out of the gate. That does not create any sense of progression if players are already 'end game'. This system is one way to solve this issue, and make balancing much easier.
Having damage stay completely static no matter what means there will be only be one type of progression, and this is progression we already have.. LOOT. Players do NOT start fresh on Realms, they have their existing items. Now If I make the damage stay a flat rate, and increase with stats, it's the same exact concept as what I'm doing now. With no progression, there's very little replay ability. No sense of achievement, no progression. Keep in mind GMOD has limited capabilities and not all internal functions for coding 'bots' are exposed. So when it comes to efficient nextbot coding; Creating super unique, smart, and 'fun' NPC's to fight is not a simple task, nor is it something I want for normal mobs.
In a typical RPG you start out weak and progress to be stronger. That's precisely what I want to achieve here, and the huge obstacle was allowing players to have their Inventories. In most games you start out with very little and gain more and more to help you, which adds another layer to progression. The same as leveling up your character.
TL;DR:
Games need some form of progression that gives a sense of achievement. Most games do this by having players start with nothing, and start weak, then progress through, enhance their characters, and get better gear. We do not have the 'start with no gear' and work your way up option here(nor do we have the super fast paced dodge-block enemy fight option) for the most part as most players WILL already start with really good weapons. How would you add progression for those players? Replay value? Give something more interesting to work for other than grinding out loot? They can skip most of the stuff and go straight to 'end game'. R.I.P any sense of achievement other than 'loot'. This is not supposed to be a purely 'skill based' gamemode. It's not some super competitive FPS where any RNG damage could be life or death. Really, if you have any better ideas for that, I'm all ears.
Best I can say is just wait for the beta/release and try it out, then if you feel the same way, it will be much easier to have a proper discussion on it because you know more about the gamemode and have personally experienced it. I'm making something I myself would want to play, based on things I've grown up playing, not just something to please everyone. That being said nothing is set-in-stone and if enough people agree on something I will likely make some changes.
While that rule is true for a lot of things(especially 'skill based' PvP content), RNG can actually be okay to use in some PvE scenarios(I've enjoyed it quite a bit in some games). So in this type of scenario, Some random damage ranges should be perfectly fine with the way I plan to do it. I don't expect everyone to like it though - But, Look at Runescape, a MMORPG that's still alive to this day (came out in 2002). Has tens of thousands of active players. Its damage system is SUPER RNG, based on your characters stats vs your targets stats. Of course it can be pretty frustrating for PvP, but it still feels pretty good and works pretty great. Especially for progression and the amount of different character builds that became possible from it. The damage ranges here will not be NEAR as RNG based or varied as that.
Tons of games use randomized damage in one form or another(ever heard of critical hits? Stats are often there to increase your crit chances too).
Also I should clarify, it's pseudo random, not pure RNG. (google it if you're unsure what it is) The damage range also will not be anything extreme. The MAIN concept is lowering the initial damage value, and having the player increase that via leveling up (or 'training').
Think about it this way: Without a similar kind of player progression that has players start 'weak' and progress to be stronger, players can literally jump in with the best weapons they have at the moment, and just shred everything right out of the gate. That does not create any sense of progression if players are already 'end game'. This system is one way to solve this issue, and make balancing much easier.
Having damage stay completely static no matter what means there will be only be one type of progression, and this is progression we already have.. LOOT. Players do NOT start fresh on Realms, they have their existing items. Now If I make the damage stay a flat rate, and increase with stats, it's the same exact concept as what I'm doing now. With no progression, there's very little replay ability. No sense of achievement, no progression. Keep in mind GMOD has limited capabilities and not all internal functions for coding 'bots' are exposed. So when it comes to efficient nextbot coding; Creating super unique, smart, and 'fun' NPC's to fight is not a simple task, nor is it something I want for normal mobs.
In a typical RPG you start out weak and progress to be stronger. That's precisely what I want to achieve here, and the huge obstacle was allowing players to have their Inventories. In most games you start out with very little and gain more and more to help you, which adds another layer to progression. The same as leveling up your character.
Quote:However with this which already requires you to do several things at once ie moving and aiming you can't easily add complexity and depth to that and it also sounds like it's just a static value anyways.Well I'm not sure how random you think the damage is going to be, but like stated, having a damage amount that progresses as you level up your character adds a form a progression. What's wrong with that? That's the goal of it.
It doesn't really add a meaningful mechanic and is just another thing added for another form of progression to make that static value lower. It doesn't make combat or gameplay more enjoyable in any way it's an arbitrary hurdle.
TL;DR:
Games need some form of progression that gives a sense of achievement. Most games do this by having players start with nothing, and start weak, then progress through, enhance their characters, and get better gear. We do not have the 'start with no gear' and work your way up option here(nor do we have the super fast paced dodge-block enemy fight option) for the most part as most players WILL already start with really good weapons. How would you add progression for those players? Replay value? Give something more interesting to work for other than grinding out loot? They can skip most of the stuff and go straight to 'end game'. R.I.P any sense of achievement other than 'loot'. This is not supposed to be a purely 'skill based' gamemode. It's not some super competitive FPS where any RNG damage could be life or death. Really, if you have any better ideas for that, I'm all ears.
Best I can say is just wait for the beta/release and try it out, then if you feel the same way, it will be much easier to have a proper discussion on it because you know more about the gamemode and have personally experienced it. I'm making something I myself would want to play, based on things I've grown up playing, not just something to please everyone. That being said nothing is set-in-stone and if enough people agree on something I will likely make some changes.
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