(02-22-2019, 05:45 PM)Unpoke Wrote: Oracle shields are very different than everything named.
Black holes are projectiles that you have to fire towards people and are much harder to avoid with the intended purpose of disorienting them and putting them in a position where they can't fight back. There's no reason to use them outside of murderous intent.
The same applies to incendiary grenades, bow AoEs and Djinn Balls, their primary (and only) function is to damage players.
Where the shield becomes a little difficult to deal with is in the fact that its primary function is a defensive mechanism meant to protect the player, not necessarily damage others or block doorways. They're super easy to avoid and thus in 99% of cases, the user isn't really at fault for people being damaged by it. That's why the same rules don't apply to it as other projectiles/abilities that are only meant to use in aggressive scenarios.
If the shield is intended to be used defensively then it should have the ability to do damage removed.
Any active ability that causes damage is able to be used aggressively and defensively, including all of the things I mentioned. You make the choice to use something so careless use of anything that deals damage should be dealt the same way, allowing double standards just encourages trolling.
When I actively played TTT I would mark my claims with djinn balls to 1.deter people from flanking me and 2. to alert me if someone walked into it.
You can do the same with any of the other examples, and out of all of those I'd say the "hardest" to avoid would be the oracle shield because it blends in too much whereas a giant pit of fire, glowing purple orb, and gigantic black circle do not.
02-22-2019, 07:22 PM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2019, 07:23 PM by Unpoke.)
I'm all for removing the damage (I don't really think it does anything to help the weapon/doesn't make a lot of sense) IF it was replaced with something else; I think a while ago during the time of Brass' post there was a discussion of changing it to a screen effect to punish those that rush it by disorienting them but it never ended up happening.
I do think the argument of comparing it to a bow AoE/incendiary grenade/blackhole is pretty stupid, the shield isn't doesn't have defensive properties it's quite literally a defensive item entirely. Those things you're comparing it to are not defensive weapons - they were made all for the purpose of offense. There's no way to determine if the shield was "justified" because its a static defensive weapon that takes up hardly any space, there's no real reason to not use it if you're feeling threatened/in a compromising position which is a very subjective feeling. Players often like to have cover around them and if they find themselves in a hallway with no cover, I would easily argue that it's justified to want to put up a shield just in case. I don't even think the damage is a huge issue tbh, I've never run into a situation where I've been annoyed or even a little bothered by other people placing shields. I think a huge majority of the time it's used properly and you're kind've just being a baby about it.
Also the Oracle shield doesn't blend in at all anymore. Since it's become blue, it's a literal eyesore (one of the ugliest things on the server i m o, there's no way you're calling the tiny ass blackhole "giant" and saying it doesn't blend in - it's a literal neutral color.)
Actually saying it blends in more than those other things you mentioned is pretty dumb, those things are all tiny and reside on the floor where the shield is at least eye-level lol.
BeeBee makes a lot of sense. Why does it cause damage? The Fool's World shield doesn't. The benefit of the oracle shield is used for long-range protection, so the radiation damage from going inside of it is utterly pointless. I have never once seen it used for a close-quarters defense. Hell, how does it even deter someone from rushing in? Ooooh you just took 20 damage over 10 seconds, yikes.
Just remove the damage and make it so that going through the shield slows someone down by 25% or 50% or something. This should include the user, because its stupid to have someone bounce in and out of the shield using it as cover.
the oracle shield doesn't move, the fool's world shield does, terran. they're different guns completely and shouldn't be baselines for each others' designs, especially considering oracle is from brass and fools' world is tobi's(?) the rad damage is literally to punish people who rush in, and 20 damage (regardless of over how long) is pretty good at deterring people from crossing without reason. People put down bow orbs randomly a lot of the time. if you can avoid walking into those, it's pretty easy to just **not walk through the shield.**
also, beebee said "[...] clearly the defensive properties are not the main attraction. The karma free damage is." which is so beyond goofy and ridiculous that I dont know where to begin
Gets put in hallways a lot, and its actually kinda hard to see. I've accidentally ran into it. Maybe change the color sheen? I've literally walked into them without realizing.
yeah, unpoke is right here. they have a clear blue tint that got added like months ago. If you can't see them, i feel very concerned for your eyesight/monitor contrast settings
02-22-2019, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2019, 11:21 PM by 2bias.)
It causes damage to prevent people from just rushing through it making it useless. If you have HP to spare then you can, but if youre low you have to consider it more.
also both the oracle and fools world were made by me @pickles
02-23-2019, 02:12 AM (This post was last modified: 02-23-2019, 02:14 AM by Brassx.)
Just to be clear: Anything that deals damage can potentially be seen as dangerous, though situational for some items (discombobulators).
The oracle shield is much more situational as the damage it deals is fairly low(iirc), and it's pretty easy to avoid. However, placing it in small/narrow hallways, doorways, etc. That could be seen as traitorous(when not using it in a battle, obviously), and be treated just like if someone were to throw an incen in a hallway, or shoot a bow AOE at an entrance of something.
I don't think the shield needs to do damage at all. It just promotes trolling, but removing the damage makes it a "worse fools" (so you guys say really, I don't ENTIRELY think it's fair to compare them). If it has a status effect applied to those who pass through the shield, it then promotes trolling with it even more, as damage logs wont apply to it.
I'd like to remove its damage, but do something else to it to make it different, and not directly comparable to the fools world, while also making sure it's not used for trolling as often. Any suggestions?
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